in conversation with pixar creatives
Presented as part of Pixar: 20 Years of Animation
1 July 2007
79 mins
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Elyse Klaidman, Jerome Ranft and Paul Topolos talk about the varied creative disciplines required to bring Pixar's characters and stories to life on the big screen.
Presenter: Thanks, guys. We've been downstairs for the last half hour or so, rehearsing our spontaneity. So, we'll turn it over to that. I'll introduce the panelists here, and let them talk about their individual roles, and then we might throw it open to questions after that. On my right is Jerome Ranft, and Jerome joined Pixar Studios in 1997, and, according to this, he's part of a two-men sculpting team. In other words, he actually comes in and actually sculpts up real physical things, which I find interesting. He sculpted characters for many of Pixar's films, including "A Bug's Life," "Toy Story II," "Monsters, Inc.," "Finding Nemo," and "Cars," as well as the upcoming Disney/Pixar film, "Ratatouille" which is due for release in the United States yesterday. How'd it go?
Elyse Klaidman: Great.
Presenter: Huge? Jerome, did you have to shut down the country kind of huge?
Jerome Ranft: Critically great.
Presenter: Do you guys do the kind of one minute past-midnight launches that we do?
Elyse: I don't even know. They're premiering in Paris. I know everybody's in Paris for the premiere, and I have no idea. Do you? [silence] No, we don't know.
Presenter: OK, we'll get to that.
Elyse: It's opened.
Presenter: As I say, rehearsing our spontaneity. Using his own handmade tools and working with oil-based clay and Plasticine, Jerome may create up to 30 versions of a film's character before a final design is selected. I'm going to ask you at some point about the collaboration/conflict between you and final design. On my immediate left is Paul Topolos. Paul's a background artist at Pixar, which is one of the most crucial roles in the animation process. [laughter] Why is that funny?
Jerome: He shook his head no. [laughter]
Presenter: Oh, he shook his head. I missed something. Paul will talk about his role in creating a world onscreen and setting the scene through background art, from underwater scenes in "Finding Nemo" to the desert vistas in "Cars," and all the charming Parisian world of "Ratatouille." They flew you to Paris for six months?
Paul Topolos: No, actually, I was on my way to Monte Carlo, and so I stopped off at Paris. [laughter] It's a kind of gambling problem. [laughter]
Elyse: Since you're not paid well enough? [laughter]
Paul: Got to make money somehow.
Presenter: And, on my far left is Elyse Klaidman, who is Pixar's in-house curator. Elyse has created Pixar's internal exhibition program, curates Pixar's galleries, designs and implements each occasional exhibits, and works with museums from around the world on Pixar's external exhibitions, which has, I would imagine, a very large focus on Melbourne.
Elyse: We have spent months, years, decades...
Paul: How long has the show been on the road?
Elyse: It has been on the road since December 2005, when it opened at the Museum of Modern Art in New York.
Presenter: Yes, I saw it in London.
Elyse: It's much better here.
Presenter: I can imagine. It's an amazing facility. So, I'll start the individual talks with Elyse, and we'll take it from there; so I'll throw it out to you.
Elyse: Elyse is still a little sleepy so, if I'm slow you can just ask questions.
Presenter: Often animation people talk about themselves in the third sense. [laughter] I don't know why.
Elyse: We're all in just one big fantasy. I consider myself unbelievably lucky that I fell into Pixar. When I fell into Pixar and I just happened in there kind of by mistake - a poor struggling artist who got a good phone call for a job and had never heard of Pixar, and said, "Yes, sure, I'll come in there and teach drawing. So, I was hired to teach drawing at Pixar.
My roles there in the beginning were mostly teaching art, teaching drawing, color theory, composition, design. Ed Catmull, who is the president of the company, is this amazing, visionary guy, who realized that giving everybody who works at the company the opportunity to learn how to "see," which is really what teaching drawing does, could only be a good thing. It's a great thing because of collaboration. So, the technical folks, or even the finance folks, or anybody at Pixar who's learning how to draw when they're communicating with an artist, which is sometimes a difficult thing to do, have some more insight into how their process works.
So, the curator part of it also just kind of happened by mistake, where eventually, after I think a couple of years, we were going to be moving to our new facility, and I had asked if I could just have a little bit of space to let some of the frustrated artists - frustrated not because they're not doing amazing work at Pixar, but because they were artists before they came to Pixar, and maybe had some other work that they wanted to share or focus on - so, if we could have a little space to show that artwork.
About three months before the building opened, they walked me through these gargantuan, beautiful galleries and said, "Here! These are yours." And I said, "Wow! I have a new hobby!"
So, we started to show employee artwork. And then I thought, 'Oh, you know, I can't sustain this, so wouldn't it be great if I could show some of this absolutely gorgeous concept and development artwork, which is what's downstairs in the exhibition, within our hallways?' Because not everybody gets to see it or work with it all the time.
So that's what I started to do with "Monsters, Inc." and these crazy jobs with real titles were born.
So, that's my life at Pixar. The best part of it, really, is just the amazing, amazing people that we work with. It's a place that is full of extraordinarily talented, but mostly just really nice, nice people. So, I'm still there, hanging in there with these nice people.
Presenter: So, give us a feel for the size of it. How much work is there? How many...
Elyse: How much artwork that's created?
Presenter: Yeah. How many pieces, and how quickly does this stuff turn over?
Elyse: Massive amounts of artwork are created in every production. You know, I guess, I've never counted. That sound right, Topolos? Jerome? Does that sound crazy?
Jerome: How many? 13,000?
Elyse: I'd say 12, 13 thousand.
Jerome: Sure.
Elyse: I mean, drawings, paintings...
[laughter]
Elyse: ...whatever she says!
Jerome: I don't know!
Elyse: A lot. A lot, a lot. Our archive just keeps growing and growing. We've just had to get an offsite huge space to keep the artwork. And we use it; we don't just put it into a big vault. We let artists call and say, "Hey, can I see this work from Toy Story,'" or "I want to look at those color scripts that Ralph did." So, it's a living archive. There's a lot of stuff.
Presenter: Are you involved with the external screening stuff that sometimes comes into Pixar as well? Is that your field?
Elyse: You mean bringing people in?
Presenter: Yeah.
Elyse: Yeah.
Presenter: So, how many external people?
Elyse: We invite people all the time.
Presenter: It's because, it used to be like a Thursday morning staff screening, or something, wasn't there, at Pixar...for the staff as well?
Elyse: Yeah. I mean, we have a gorgeous theater. People are always meeting people as they travel around or know amazingly talented people - filmmakers and artists, and crazy smart computer science people. And they'll say, 'Hey, can we invite this person in?' We invite them and they bring friends in and we chat. We love being inspired by other people's work.
Presenter: ...Who do I choose now? I think, I'll turn to you, Jerome.
Jerome: OK.
Presenter: Some people may know the answer to this, but why would a 3-D animation studio have somebody who comes in and just sculpts clay? What do you spend your day doing?
Jerome: Sculpting characters.
Presenter: And what happens to them after that?
Jerome: They get used as reference to build the digital models, build the characters in the computer that end up getting animated.
Presenter: What's the process for? What's the collaborative process? Where does it start? Do you start with somebody's sketch or do you propose something?
Jerome: I start with drawings.
Presenter: Yeah.
Jerome: I start with drawings that are developed by a whole team of people drawing desperately, trying to fulfill the director's vision of what his characters should look like.
Presenter: Are you dealing with all of the characters? Like, even all the little ancillary characters?
Jerome: Usually, we start with the lead characters on a film and work towards secondary characters. By the time we build the third layer of characters, or the tertiary characters, we're out of money.
[laughter]
Presenter: And out of time.
Jerome: This budgets everything, you know, on any kind of production.
Presenter: Is it easy? Some stuff come really, really easy. You get it like that? Or, is some stuff just like...
Jerome: Yeah, like...
Presenter: ...is it just like pooled in blood out of the wall.
Jerome: Your intro for 30 characters... That had happened only once, and that was on "Monsters." After that experience, Pixar said, 'Wow - we're not going to do that again!'
[laughter]
Jerome: Because it was the better part of a year for one character, and it was quite a bit of effort and time put into him. I think, we could have done better doing that exploration on paper instead of in clay.
Presenter: OK. About 12 months ago Tia Kratter came through. Tia was the person who... What would be the official title? Does the coloring?
Elyse: She's an art director. She does designs of color and texture.
Presenter: She came through, and one of the things she claimed was that Pixar sent them all out in the desert for a little while to just go and have a look and sent this guy to Monte Carlo on his way to Paris.
[laughter]
Presenter: Do sculptors get that...
Jerome: [chuckling] No.
Presenter: Or do you have to sit in a little dark room? I can just imagine it.
Jerome: This... again, it's going to sound like complaining, but...
[laughter]
Jerome: ...when I was working on "Nemo," all the upper management and the production designers and art directors got to come to Australia and dive on the Great Barrier Reef, while Ricky and I were stuck in California just making fish you know.
[laughter]
Presenter: But, do you think of these things as simply a static model that will simply be used to, you know wireframe or do you, can you imagine these things moving in your mind? Like could these be picked up and animated?
Jerome: What I produce?
Presenter: Mmm hmm.
Jerome: No. They are static.
Presenter: Yeah.
Jerome: They are definitely... you're just trying to get the essence of like an iconic pose, an iconic gesture and an expression on the characters that I produce, that just tells you who that character is.
Man: Yeah. What's the hardest part - the expressions?
Jerome: It's getting an approval.
[laughter]
Jerome: Making the director happy is always the hardest part you know. And it's a struggle to find. It's just a search. And you're with a group of people, and you're just trying to make it work.
Presenter: Mmm hmm.
Jerome: I don't know what other way to put it really. It's just... it's really fun. It's very challenging. But, it's definitely... you know, I feel fulfilled if I can do it within three or four reviews.
Presenter: Mmm.
Jerome: You know? And then... In Sully's case, you know, six months went by and I'm like, "What am I doing wrong? Why can't I hit this?" But the story kept changing, so it wasn't my fault.
[laughter]
Presenter: And what... [laughs]... that takes me to my next question. What are the things that you get knocked back for, you know, when you turn up with a fish and go, "I have the fish." And they go, "Mmm mmm."
Jerome: I don't think, I get knocked back. It just doesn't fit the bill. It just isn't quite working.
Presenter: Yeah. So, and it becomes a matter of fine-tuning that, or are you back to square one?
Jerome: Sometimes it's fine tuning.
Presenter: Yeah.
Jerome: You know - for instance Dory, I mean when we were first starting with the fish for Nemo it was like, "Well, let's not anthropomorphize the fish too much. Let's not put human faces on them. Let's stick with how a fish looks, and just see what we have to do to stylize it to make it look appealing and look like it can be animated.
So, you know Dory's a blue tang and their eyes are on the sides of their heads. And I spent, maybe, six reviews slowly moving the eyes forward.
Presenter: Mmm.
Jerome: To try to find that sweet spot, so it still looks like a fish, but it doesn't have like eyes right in the front of her face.
Presenter: OK. And when do you, when is your job over? Do you... when somebody goes, "This is great" and they take it away?
Jerome: When they say, "Done."
Presenter: Done.
Jerome: Right.
Presenter: So, the next time you see that characters, it's a 3-D image on the screen?
Jerome: Well sometimes... Sometimes, I'm involved with helping a digital modeler see and interpret what I've produced.
Presenter: Mmm.
Jerome: But then, you know... yeah, I do kind of hand it off and I don't have to really think about it again.
Presenter: And does the end result ever surprise you?
Jerome: Yeah, sometimes I really love it. Sometimes I don't.
Presenter: Yeah.
Jerome: It depends. I mean, it's like anyone who is an artist in the room. You know, it's like you see the flaws in your own work - we were talking about that earlier - and it's, you know, sometimes it does go beyond my expectations and sometimes I thought what I produced looks better.
Paul: We all want to ask him which ones he wound up hating.
[laughter]
Jerome: But we won't. Paul, despite what you may think, I actually happen that backgrounds are really an incredibly important part of an animated film.
[laughter]
Jerome: He's been living for my approval all these years. It's so not easy. I've known one or two people that have done - not on your scale but, I know people who have really, really struggled to kind of keep that right. The people I have known that have done this have had fairly isolated experiences.
I bet that's not quite what happens at Pixar because Pixar has this kind of inclusive culture, at least the reputation for it. But, where in the process do you fit? Like are you right there at the beginning or does somebody come to you with a brief or... tell us a little bit about like how that whole department of yours works.
Paul: Yeah, it was interesting because I know Brad Bird, when he was talking to me about 'Ratatouille' he was just saying that he wanted to make a movie, where everybody would have a little bit of time to shine.
And there was a scene where Remy sees Paris for the first time, and he kept on, in a very Brad kind of way like, [mimics] "Yeah man, you're going to do this one. And, and you're going to paint Paris."
[laughter]
So, you always sort of see it early on in the story reels, and that's where you hear the gasps in the audience. It's like, "Oh god, how are we going to do that?" of like all the technical people in the audience because they always pair me with a smarter person that actually can get my paintings onto sometimes, they are just on a flat, like a billboard. Sometimes, they are projected onto like little Monopoly buildings.
But it's... I tend to be getting later and later onto movies.
It's funny, I started Ratatouille a little over a year ago and then I finished late April but Incredibles, I was on very early and did some preproduction. Actually, the film that I'm on now, I'm doing a lot more preproduction art, and then I'm going to be doing the map paintings for those scenes; and it's not as boring as it sounds.
Jerome: So, it starts with physical art? You don't start with a computer? You start with...
Paul: No, I'm afraid the only reason that I'm in this business is because I change my mind so much and the computer allows you to fix all the mistakes that you make. I mean, if I was a traditional map painter, like the "old school" days, when they had these big paintings, yes, I'd still be making coffee.
[laughter]
Presenter: The question I want to ask is how much respect do you get within the whole process, but I want to ask that. What I'll ask is, at what level of consultation are you brought in? Are you told, "This is what we want?" Or do you turn up and go, "Hey, look. This is a little character. It needs a big..."
Paul: Right, well, usually the story team has been plugging away and they'll have little spotting sessions, where they'll be like, "OK, we only see this once. This is the perfect candidate from that painting." Then, you start getting into it.
What's funny is every film is a little bit different as far as how much creative control you've got, or how little. Ratatouille, it was a little frustrating because sometimes it felt like my production designer was drawing stuff for me, but then I saw the results and it was amazing! Whereas other films, people kind of know what their strengths and weaknesses are.
On Cars,' it was great because Bill Comb would actually, embarrassingly, teach me stuff about the paintings that I was doing, where he would be saying, "Well, Paul, see, the sun's up there, right? It's bouncing onto the sand. The cloud's here, so why isn't the cloud the same, doesn't it have some of the same colors? Why Paul?"
[laughter]
Paul: It's magic! "You want a coffee?"
[laughter]
Presenter: You're shooting for realism to a degree? Like, on a scale of 100, being basically a live action camera plunked down, and these are set in the water and one being [unintelligible] or something our there, where you guys are going for?
Elyse: It really depends on the director's vision. Realism is not what we're going for. We're going for creating these believable worlds. So, we use whatever amount of making it look real as we need, and then we're making animated films. So, we're caricaturing, changing, and living in a fantasy world.
So, it's this combination of being driven by what the director wants and making it believable.
Presenter: And the director is "king president" and executioner.
Elyse: Yes, I mean, somebody's got to hold the vision. Otherwise, it would be a big free-for-all. This idea of benevolent dictatorship, which I keep hearing, is really true. I mean, Pixar does have an incredible creative environment, and there are people who say, "No, this is what it should be and this is what I want."
The great part of it is that you can at any point say, "Well what about this?" They might say, "No," but you can at least say, "What about...?" What, I think, most directors are hoping for in production designers is asking all these talented people to spit stuff out of their heads and their hands, and draw it, paint it, sculpt it, and do whatever, so they can go, "Wow! That's something I didn't think of!" or, "Not that! Now I know that I really don't want that because you drew it." It goes back and forth.
Paul: Yes, the culture at Pixar, I think, is one of the things that most people think of as part of Pixar's secret source in a certain sense, and not wanting to mention any other enormous studios, but the reputation they often have is, these people are dragged in, shackled to a desk, told what to do, whipped until they basically give out, whereas, Pixar's kind of the complete opposite of that. Not that we might explore the kind of culture, I suppose at Pixar, that allows all those things to come out.
Does one of you or all of you want to talk us through a day at Pixar? From the day that you drive in, do you even get days where you're just not allowed to leave?
[laughter]
Elyse: I'll tell you first that the thing that always concerns me when I'm out here talking about Pixar is, that you guys will think that they actually give us drugs and special Kool-Aid that makes us say, "It's just a great place."
[laughter]
Elyse: "Oh my god!" The last two weeks we've been together - a bunch of us, there've been like nine of us, 10 of us here - and we walk around and we talk about how fun stuff is and how exciting and, "Oh gosh, that guy there! And it's amazing! And "Look, how talented!" and it's like, "oh my God, listen to us!"
And, like I said, it's a place full of amazing people, starting up at the very top, starting with John Lasseter, who is the largest animated human being I've ever seen. I mean, really full of life and passion, and he spreads that passion throughout the company, wherever he is. If John's talking to you, no matter who you are, if you're just serving him lunch, you have his full undivided attention, and it's an amazing experience. And then Ed Catmull, who is the president, is just the most decent, honest human being I think I've ever met. So, this combination works some magic on everybody.
Jerome: Yes, and there are 37 different kinds of cereal in the cafeteria, or something.
Elyse: Is it 37?
Jerome: Oh, it's huge!
Elyse: It's a lot, and it's all the really unhealthy ones that I don't want my children to have [laughter]. So, when they come visit that's straight where they go.
Paul: Why do I bring my own cereal to work then? [laughter]
Elyse: Because you don't want to eat Lucky Charms and Captain Crunch.
Paul: Because I can't eat sugar.
And I think, a funny thing, having worked at other studios, you've got something to compare it with, and I think, that's why I'm still really really happy. It's funny, people that get jobs right out of school, or right out of university and get a job at Pixar, sometimes they'll be like, "Oh, we ran out of Cheerios today, this is bad," and you're like, "You stupid little [laughter]. You're getting paid, you get paid overtime, you get fed. When I was young..." [laughter] They don't understand how good they have it. [laughs]
Jerome: No, they don't.
Paul: I mean even on bad days, it's good.
Jerome: Yeah.
Paul: Now, there's definitely bad days. There was a funny thing where a guy that I knew that worked out of a company whose initials rhyme with DreamWorks [laughter]. He was telling me that he was at the wrap party, and the speeches were like, "Yeah, we're going to make so much money! This is going to go through the roof!" and he came to "The Incredibles" wrap party, and it's Steve Jobs, who you'd never really think is sort of touchy-feely, who is saying, "Hey guys, life is short, and you know your family's what matters." and we were all kind of blown away. Nobody was really talking about money.
I think, something that I can't realize is that when you work in a company of a thousand people, it's easy to say, "Oh, it's..." and maybe get a little jaded, but then you see that these guys are really trying hard to actually make it personal to individuals. And I think, it is kind of an American thing to get all "drinking the Kool-Aid." I remember that John cried once in front of a meeting, and it really hit me. I was like, "Oh, Jesus Christ, he means this."
Jerome: Yes, John is the real deal. He's very very generous. You see him at free stores, and things what that he's perfectly happy to deal with the likes of me, even now. He's just interested in what he does. How do you get in? How do you get a job at Pixar?
Paul: How much money do you have? [laughter]
Jerome: Really? You buy your way in? [laughter] No, seriously, because I get asked this a little bit, "How do you get a job at Pixar?" and I'm like, "Why ask me?" but I thought I'd say that one to you.
Elyse: I feel, it was total luck. I was just in the right place at the right time. I had one of the painters at Pixar take my drawing workshop. I was teaching a drawing workshop in a God-forsaken little town, and she showed up. She walked in, and I always ask people what do they do. She said, "I'm an artist, and I have a job and I have health insurance!" I thought, well, that's cool, you know? "Toy Story" hadn't come out yet, and I didn't know what Pixar was.
Then about six months later I got this phone call from a guy. She said, "Some geeky guy's about to call you. He talks really slowly. He's one of those engineer types. His name's Edwin Catmull. I said, "OK." She forgot to mention president of the company'. So, this geeky, quiet guy did call me and invited me in, and I was lucky enough to convince him that I could teach drawing, so here I am.
Jerome: Wow.
Elyse: They wouldn't hire me today. I don't have the resume to get into that place any more.
Jerome: Do they have a recruitment program there?
Elyse: Yes.
Jerome: Yes, and the path into that is what, through websites, through trade shows?
Elyse: Yes, I know that they do look at stuff. You can submit reels and portfolios through the website. Obviously, it can help if you know somebody, [laughs] like any other place. I know that they go through lots and lots and lots of reels.
Presenter: OK, let's see, I'm going to hand it over to you guys, so start thinking about your questions. But, before we do that, I'm going to go once down the panel, and ask them the goofy question, one at a time, what's your favorite Pixar character and, maybe, why?
Elyse: These days I've been saying Helen from "The Incredibles," because I'm a mom, and Brad just nailed it, you know? Brad Bird, he gets women, you know, he just he does! He has an amazing wife, and she obviously has some influence, and he gets it. And the image of Helen, and that whole family; but, Helen stretching in a million directions, it's how I feel all the time. He is pretty fabulous, too.
Paul: Actually, I really like... I'm liking Remy a lot. I mean, I do a lot of cooking, and I don't know, I just... you guys will love the film. I love that film. Yeah, I can't think of anything interesting...
Elyse: You're sounding like Lou.
Paul: The guy that plays Linguini was my boss, and we were mentioning earlier that...
Elyse: He is a production designer.
Paul: Yeah, he is a production designer, and he just did the cover for the "New Yorker."
Elyse: And he plays the lead... one of the leads in "Ratatouille."
Paul: Yeah, you want to break his thumbs and, you know... [laughter] But, he's just... he is touched. I mean, almost, I thought he was mentally challenged when I first met him. [laughter] Because he just got this really sort of soft, comical, yet... he doesn't really... he'd be like, he'd walk into a room and, [imitating Lou's voice] "oh, hey, Paul. Are you OK?"
[laughter]
Elyse: He does this so well!
Paul: And I'd be, like, "yeah, hey, Lou, I was just going to show you this thing" - [imitating Lou's voice] "Oh, that's great. I was thinking a little bit more blue, do you think? You OK?"
[laughter]
Elyse: You can actually see Lou in the kiosks down in the exhibition. There are interviews with the artists, and his name's Lou Romano, and this imitation is absolutely brilliant, you'll see.
Paul: But, you guys will love the film. And bring a date, OK?
Jerome: [whispering] We need to get the numbers up.
[laughter]
Presenter: Bring them if you got them. Jerome, same question to you.
Jerome: Eva, I like Eva a lot. Every time I see that film, she makes me laugh.
Presenter: Fantastic. Probably [unintelligible] for me.
OK, questions from the floor. As we mentioned earlier, we are trying to record these sessions for posterity. So ,if we can wait until the microphone is actually under you that would be good. And if I think, there is some sort of sound problem, I'll just repeat the question for everybody's benefit. But, does anybody have a particular question they would like to ask? Right up the back there.
Question: Good day. I was just wondering, with all the conceptual and everything downstairs, the people who do that - do they just sit and draw all day long? Obviously, they've got tasks, but are they there from the first day to the last day, or do they have other jobs within the company? Like, do they go to a computer once the concept stage is done?
Elyse: Generally, if you are hired as an artist, you are hired as an artist. You are not there from day one of the production until the very end because the phase of work that you are doing might be completed in the first two to three years, and then you would transition on to another film. I mean, there are some artists who also can work on the computer. There are people who'll do both conceptual drawing and painting, and then digital painting or matte painting, so their job might go a little bit longer, but it's not like they then go on and become a technical director and build the models, and do the shading, and do the lighting. It's pretty specialized, what people do. Right?
Paul: Yeah. And some people, like for the movie that's going to come out next year, there are a bunch of artists there ramping off, I guess, two weeks ago. They are already going on to the next film, doing design work. And it's only usually the people at the very-very top that are trying to make sure everything stays consistent that they stay on throughout the whole production.
Jerome: There's also a lot of freelance work downstairs.
Elyse: There's not that much. I heard you say that the other day, there's really not that much.
Paul: You are wrong.
Jerome: There's a lot of Carter Goodrich down there. At least three or four pieces, right? So there's some...
Elyse: Yeah, we definitely have... [laughter] All right, Jerome, we are going down to do some counting.
Jerome: I was going to give it another minute... [laughter]
Elyse: That's why they kept us at opposite ends of the table.
Question: What is the production cycle for, like, "Ratatouille"? You, know, how does it start? Must start with an idea, I guess.
Elyse: Starts with an idea, director's idea.
Question: Yes, so somebody walks in, guess, "hi, I've got an idea, like a rat in Paris," and they say "that's the one"? How long until, you know, June 29th launching?
Elyse: Oh God, it can be years.
Jerome: Five or six years.
Question: Five or six years?
Elyse: Five or six years, when you actually - the idea is like, OK, yes, go put that in development and then production. But, sometimes there are ideas that were talked about ten, twelve years ago, that kind of stay there in the back of the head, and then, OK, it's time to bring that one.' They are pondered for a while sometimes.
Question: Do you have stuff that does reasonably lighten the production process? Have you gotten partway into production on something and just gone, "No."
Elyse: We had this question the other day. No, what happens is, the story gets changed...
Jerome: Fixed.
Elyse: Changed and fixed and pummeled and..., but it doesn't just go away.
Jerome: I think, only once a short...
Elyse: One short film that happened, yeah.
Jerome: The plug got pulled on it.
Paul: And then that rock musical. It was 2-D.
Presenter: I can see a hand up and I can see a microphone there. We'll get to you next.
Question: A quick question. It seemed like a lot of the original Pixar films were done by founders of the companies, or early people. But then, "The Incredibles" and "Ratatouille" are by Brad Bird who's come in from outside. So, how has that been, incorporating someone who wasn't there at the start into the creative process of making your films?
Paul: I think, it was great because Brad and John and Tim Burton and Joe, they were all part of the same class at CalArts. And I know, I was hired for "Incredibles," but it was a little bit funny because Brad brought a bunch of people that he'd worked with on "Iron Giant" to Pixar and I know that actually turned into kind of a good thing, I heard it.
Elyse: I heard John talk about this... actually John and Ed say, "You know, we don't want to get just comfortable at what we're doing. Like, 'Oh, yeah, we did that; now we're going to do that sort of again and a little different.' So, keep things lively; change it up." And they had admired Brad's work and I think, everybody at Pixar just adored "The Iron Giant." It just he has, he's kind of livened things up. He's brilliant and he challenges and inspires everybody even at the highest level. So, it was great.
Paul: And I think, especially with "Incredibles," they hired a bunch of new people. And it was funny when I first got hired. It kind of felt like we were like the B-Team, because John had cherry-picked all of his favorite people to be on "Cars." And it was like, "Am I the red-headed stepchild?"
[laughter]
Jerome: Yes. We all are.
Paul: But, I think that it kind of made us push ourselves even further because we were new at Pixar.
Presenter: In the center with the microphone.
Question: Do you ever feel like you have to cut corners to meet commercial deadlines or are you as a company sort of beyond that? And if you ever do have to - I hesitate to use the word - rush things to hit a date, where do those corners get cut?
Elyse: We're constantly cutting corners. We hear that all the time - budget and time, budget and time....
Jerome: The schedule.
Elyse: The schedule, right. I think, the bottom line always is, cut the corners where it's not going to compromise the story.
Jerome: Even a director, Brad and John Walker were constantly fighting each other. And John was always saying, "Look, if you want this, you have to give up this." That's just that dynamic of operating within a limited budget.
Elyse: Didn't they make Brad that great thing with the Popsicle sticks on it? Do any of you guys know about that? I think, they made Brad this big chart of all the things that he wanted still for the film and how much it would cost and he would have to take Popsicle sticks off. Like, "OK, if I want this, then I can't have this." They made it very tangible and physical for him.
Presenter: Could you give us any examples of Popsicle sticks that didn't make it into any of the films that we know.
Paul: I know one, just being a map painter, I kind of felt like in the beginning of "Incredibles" that the city didn't look the way that I wanted it to look like. I'd done some mappings that Brad really liked. And one of those things where the budget was so bad and we'd really bitten off more than we could chew. And I just remember...
Presenter: Monte Carlo didn't come through for you.
Paul: No, I would have given him the money. But, I remember seeing Brad. I was like, "Brad, Brad, look, I will do this for free, all right? I just want this city to... I want to do this map painting." And I remember people on the production were telling me that was the angriest they'd ever seen me.
And I remember, my heart went out because Brad looked really tired. He was like, "Yeah, man. You know, I totally want that, too, but I just can't, I just can't." He wanted it, but it was... If you knew all the things that we kind of snuck in just to make things look better. I don't know where I'm going with this.
[laughter]
Paul: Well no, we never cut corners. [laughter] I did a whole series of characters for Ratatouille - a whole group that was cut from the film, that never made it, where never built.
Question: The next Pixar film after Ratatouille, Wally,' that we are now seeing sneak previews online, how far is that, how close to release date do you sort of have to say that's it, or is it that still being animated, what sort of..
Elyse: The day before. We finished it the day Before. Its deep deep deep in production. I mean, it's being animated, it's being designed, it's being worked on.
Jerome: It's being rewritten.
[laughter]
Jerome: I mean, they are constantly changing things trying to make it as good as they can.
Presenter: There is something about his tone that tells me he's not kidding.
Elyse: No, he's not.
Jerome: I'm absolutely not kidding, we rewrite till we can't write anymore.
Paul: Well, I think, that is neat. I remember people hadn't seen... in the company, I haven't seen Nemo for a long time, and I know there where a couple things where people are like, 'well, I don't know,' then once they finally saw the film it all clicked and then you are realizing yeah, you are smart, mister director. Yeah, Wally is... Yeah, I'm doing a bunch of... Oh, no, maybe, I shouldn't say that.
Question: Is there a release date.
Elyse: I think, next year.
Paul: Next summer.
Question: Which means you have got three, four, five things at some level of production.
Paul: Secrets... [unintelligible]
[laughter]
Elyse: I'm not telling you guys secrets. There's Wally,' which comes out in a year. The next one that has been announced is up, which is directed by Pete Docter, who directed Monsters Inc.,' and then... the next one is Toy Story 3.' And then, there're two or three more that are in development. Don't tell any one where you heard those secrets.
Question: Those other two are in Greenland.
Elyse: They're in the Greenland...
Jerome: We're just not saying anything.
Elyse: Yeah. [laughs]. If I told you those secrets you would never see me again. Or maybe, I would be moving to Melbourne.
Jerome: [whispers] We like working.
Presenter: I see the microphone going... OK. We'll start here, and we'll get to you after that.
Question: I noticed in the Toy Story,' one sort development. There were pictures of Woodies in Marionette. And they went in the eventual Toy Story 1,' but in Toy Story 2,' you were able to use Woody. Have you had any sort of ideas, that for one film, for one reason or another, you didn't make it, and then, you were able to utilize them in another.
Jerome: I think, Wheezy,' the Penguin was scheduled to be in Toy Story I' and they pulled it, and just ended up using him in Toy Story 2.' That's the only one I really know of.
Question: Yeah.
Jerome: I'm sure, there're other things, but we are just not privy to that.
Paul: What happened to Jack-Jack Attack, that short or something got affected by the end of The Incredibles,' I think.
Elyse: : Was Jack-Jack Attack'..... No.. I think, it was just an idea that happened after production; it wasn't part of the story. But, this would be really fun to do, so lets do that.
Jerome: [unintelligible]
Elyse: Yeah. I mean, probably, there are lots of ideas out there that get used somehow but... yeah, I don't know.
Question: I'm fascinated by the collaborative nature of the artistic process in your film making, and I imagined, from what you said, it's a wonderful experience to do that - you got ideas coming to you from different direction all the time.
In the end, when you get to the animation process, and you have a character that's been developed in the physical form, how do you ensure the consistency of the animation on the body language of the characters? Do you actually... I presume, you probably got several different animators working on the same characters in different scenes; how do you actually get it consistent and insure that perhaps a character doesn't get an unusual gesture suddenly coming into a scene. [unintelligible]. Do you all take body language classes for characters, or how does it work.
Jerome: The animators hold themselves to a very high standard.
Elyse: They have reviews every single day.
Jerome: Every day.
Elyse: They start the day with dailies, where they are looking at each others animation, and the directors are in there, and the supervising animators; and they are constantly reviewing themselves and critiquing the work. And so, they are crazy just a bit. And you know, if it doesn't work, "What would you do that for?"
Paul: No, and they will film themselves. They got a little room just made to have a camera.
Elyse: Is there a style guide for the animators? Someone asked me that the other day. I don't think we have that.
Paul: Well. I know, for 'Ratatouille,' when Brad took over, there was some neat stuff, I remember like... it was the French animator guy that really talked about why should running rats should have there paws like this,' and it was a lot more cute, it was really neat instead of doing the stuff, I usually do. Say something smart, Jerome.
[laughter]
Jerome: Something smart.
Paul: Yes!
Presenter: All right, we've got a couple up here. Who's got the microphone down this... we'll go to the end and then we'll come to this one here.
Question: I'm just kind of curious. I'm always fascinated by sort of the relationships you'd have digitally, and from a sculptural point of view. And I just want to... The gentleman on the left, how do you... do you feel like you have a better relationship with the characters that you're developing through texture than someone who would do it on screen?
Jerome: Do you want me to answer this one, should I?
Paul: Yeah, go ahead.
Jerome: I don't quite understand what you mean, you mean...?
Question: I work in an architectural field and I love to draw, but I'm finding that in my profession the computer seems to be taking over. From an efficiency point of view, that's great. But, I miss the relationship that I develop through the pencil and through physical texture. I just wonder whether you feel you have a better relationship with the characters you're developing through texture?
Paul: or through clay?
Jerome: Sure, because that's my medium. I mean, I'm the clay guy there, so... But, what I'm generating is not... I mean, it's a nice sculpture, but the final sculpture is the one in the computer.
Question: OK, but do you think you understand the characters a little bit better through their texture than they would by clicking a mouse button and having just the two dimensional sight?
Jerome: Yeah, I think, it depends. I mean, the director has the call on whether it's correct or not; but yeah, I personally do have a very close affiliation with the clay. I mean, that's where my passion lies.
Elyse: And your role Jerome is kind of a transitional role from the two dimensional drawings and designs. And sometimes, you know, if you look downstairs, some of these drawings are really loose and they're just kind of inspirational, thrown out on the paper. And then Jerome gets to actually create that in 3-D, and then the next guy along who's creating it in 3-D in the computer is adding his or her own, you know, twist and talent and skills. So, it's really, you know, who as an artist you are and what your tool is.
Jerome: And an important thing to remember in that process is that phase shift from a real 3-D object in front of you to a 3-D object in the computer. I mean, even if you scan it and it's the exact same thing, when you see it on a flat screen, it's really fake 3-D. And you interpret it differently, even if it's exactly the same you look at it and you're like, "Wow, it doesn't read the same as this clay thing right in front of me." So...
Elyse: So, that he has to modify it.
Jerome: And then it goes through another iteration of design.
Presenter: Do you ever get to propose from scratch? Certain character that you...
Jerome: No, I'm not so much a designer as just a collaborator with the design.
Presenter: Are you aware of the broader story or are you...?
Jerome: Absolutely.
Presenter: You are. So, everybody is part of that.
Jerome: I watch the story reels, when I'm on a production, but after I'm off, I don't watch anything. Like, I didn't see anything on "Ratatouille" for three years.
Presenter: Wow!
Jerome: After I was done doing my job I just... It's nice to see, I mean... When I was on "Nightmare Before Christmas," I saw every day there, I saw everything; and by the time the film came out, I was... I didn't enjoy it! And even to this day, if I put "Nightmare Before Christmas" on, I fall asleep. Right?
[laughter]
Jerome: So, I've decided that it's better for me to just, after I've finished, don't watch anything, and when I get to the wrap party I get to really enjoy it as if I'm just an audience member.
Elyse: One of the things that happen at Pixar that I think exemplifies this open culture and collaboration is that reels of the films are shown to the entire company. So, you may be working in the recruitment department, or whatever department, and you have an opportunity to actually send in your notes to the producer, who, you know, may or may not share them with the director, depending on how worthwhile they are, but everybody is asked to give their opinion.
Jerome: I'm afraid, they just add them up.
Elyse: Yeah.
Jerome: If they get a consistent note, it's like, "Wow, we've got ten of the same notes, we better at least think about it."
Paul: Yeah, because when I worked on "Episode Poo," on "Star Wars," it was like... I think, it was like a week before it opened that they actually showed it to us and they said, "If there's anything confusing about it..."
Jerome: It's too late.
Paul: Yeah, I was kind of...
Jerome: You had the whole movie!
[laughter]
Paul: Yeah.
Jerome: Sorry, I didn't say that.
Paul: No, but it's kind of new, because sometimes the director would be saying, "What do you think?" And like, "You're asking me?!"
Presenter: OK, the microphone got... There's a gentleman in blue, we'll go to you after that.
Question: I've got a couple of questions related to the exhibit.
I was interested to - because obviously it was conceived or produced first in 2005 - has it evolved a lot since the MoMA debut, because... were you showing Ratatouille' to people then?
And also, did you... are you guys involved every time it goes somewhere? Like you said, you were very involved in Melbourne. And also, I just wanted to say that Artscape is just brilliant and overwhelming.
And on a more technical side you sort of... it's in the notes of the program that it was layered, I think, in Photoshop or separated. I wondered if anybody had an idea what animation program, like was it AfterEffects or how they actually -
Elyse: AfterEffects.
Question: It was AfterEffects.
Elyse: Yeah, Photoshop and AfterEffects essentially.
Question: Yeah.
Elyse: That's the only part of your question I can remember. [laughs]
Question: Oh sorry.
Elyse: No...
Question: How different is it? Like, it's gone obviously to London and Japan and...
Elyse: It's actually been a fascinating process, because we were really involved for about a year with MoMA, developing the show and going through all of the artwork and, and helping the curators there understand our process and introducing them to the artists. We get very involved in what we do at Pixar and very excited about it.
So, there we opened in New York and boom, oh yeah, we're done, tour the show - that should be easy. And it's been fascinating, because first of all each museum has their own interpretation and their own twist that they'd like to, you know, add to it. And each museum has a different layout and a different space and different style.
So, we've been very involved, and we have added artwork; and we are very, very much part of the quality control of the message of the exhibition. And I think... I'll explain that in saying that a lot of people, when they think about Pixar, they don't think about these drawings and paintings. They only want to know about the technology and the process and the secrets.
And John's vision for the show has always been about, "No. Let's show the world that we make these films by hand. And let's show them about the individual artists and the artistry. And I don't want to go there. I don't want to do that process thing."
So, we've been very involved. And we also didn't want it to be a big commercial promotion. It's not about, "Oh, good. 'Cars' is coming out. Let's go and promote it." So, we've kept Solly and Mike' - they're not allowed in the gallery, and Sally the Porsche'. You know, we've kept those things separate, because we really cared about letting people see this work.
So, six of us travel with the show. There are a couple of people who are there to install the Zoetrope and Artscape, which were created and built and made at Pixar; and only they know how to put it together. We were also with the Barbican Group from London who are managing the tour. And they come with us.
We check the artwork. We go through a whole process with archivists, conservators at each museum to see what condition the artwork is in, when it arrives, and when it leaves. So, it's a pretty labor-intensive program. It's not like when we finish a film. You just, you know, send it off. It's more like a theater production probably.
And thank you for saying that about Artscape. I adore Artscape.
Presenter: OK. The gentleman in the blue, and then we'll come to you with the microphone.
Question: A lot of the short films up until 'Geri's Game' I always saw as having some technical challenge, which is employed into the features. But, with bounding, I just can't see the technical challenges in that. Is there a different attitude toward the short films at the moment that Pixar is producing?
Elyse: Who wants that? I've been talking a lot for the past hour.
Jerome: That's all you.
Elyse: Me?
Jerome: Yeah.
Paul: Because I don't know.
[laughter]
Elyse: The short film program - yeah, I think at one point, it was about technical challenge. And I think, sometimes it still is. I'm not... what's the... in 'Lifted' was there anything technical or gelatinous?
Paul: Yeah, there was but I think that kind of is getting cut from the thing with the thing.
Elyse: Oh, that thing?
Paul: Yeah.
Elyse: Oh, the secret thing? I think, it's really more about, about talent and giving people an opportunity to direct, to production design, to work on something that they just haven't done yet in a feature film, and that maybe they are going to. So, it's an opportunity for people to try things out, not always technically.
Paul: When Bud retired too - I mean, I think, that was kind of his baby.
Elyse: Yeah.
Paul: Because Bud Luckey did 'Boundin'. You know, wrote the song, did all the storyboards... I mean he's...
Elyse: He did everything.
Paul: Yeah, and he's old-school like, Sesame Street and just... yeah, he draws like a son of a gun. You just look at that line quality and you just think, "No, I can't. I can't do that."
But, that one was really close to his heart. And I think... I remember like, when I first saw it I was like, "Oh, this is kind of cute." And then I kind of - this sounds sort of serious. But, after 9/11 there was... just sort of seeing that, there was kind of this thing about going through something bad and being able to sort of come back out of it.
And it just, it became a lot more meaningful.
Elyse: And it's so Bud.
Paul: Yeah.
Elyse: So, you know, we all adore Bud Luckey. He's an amazing guy. He just retired from Pixar - The first person to ever retire from Pixar. And it's just so his heart and soul and who he is that it's a really meaningful film for us. And it's really meaningful to me that Pixar would have him make it.
Presenter: Yeah, in my little neck of the woods, the Pixar shorts are often the ones that turn up at animation festivals and film festivals more so than the features. And it's been, it's been a great way... I'm sure it's not the whole reason you do it, but it's been a great way of getting Pixar into that highly, albeit very small, but that highly creative environment, where a lot of artists and a lot of professionals view.
And you guys kind of built that model. And it's, it's sort of interesting to see, you know like Lucas stealing the idea.
Elyse: It's really...
Jerome: It's also where we started.
Elyse: Yeah, it's where we started. It's our roots. And that's a good point you bring up, because it's really important to us to stay involved with that community of artists and animators and people who have got ideas and are you know struggling maybe to get them out there and be a part of it.
Because you know, we are seen now as a big successful company. And I think our roots are still there and our heart is still there. That's been important.
Presenter: Yeah, absolutely. The microphone here.
Question: With the company getting bigger and bigger, how do you think that affects your work and your place in the company? Like does it get better or worse as the company grows or does the hugeness of it affect how you work?
Paul: I don't recognize as many people as I used to. We have this thing called hallway. You know, we've got these long hallways. And we call it 'bad hallways' if somebody like... if you're walking towards them and you smile at them, and they don't smile back. That's bad hallway.
Elyse: Do you get a lot of bad hallway?
Paul: Maybe, it's just me.
[laughter]
Paul: I'm smiling. But, there are a lot of shy people. But, I don't know. I think too...
Presenter: You're not eating the right cereal maybe.
Paul: I know. Either I've got cereal stuck to my mouth...
[laughter]
Paul: But, there are a lot of new faces and I think too, now that we are doing more movies, it's still very movie based. I mean, it's whatever movie that you're on, those seem to be the people that you hang out with, and it still feels very intimate. I mean, it still feels like the same number of people that I've always worked with. It's just that there are more movies going on.
Elyse: I think, Pixar University classes are really good things for that. Because we have this whole educational program, where we have... For employees, we have art classes and film classes and writing and acting that anybody at the company can take. And I think, that's one of these places where you get out of your production, and mix with all kinds of people from the company. And I meet tons of people because of that.
Paul: Right. I've met people I never would have come into contact within classes.
Presenter: Right.
Elyse: Yeah, I'm amazed. I mean, I've been at Pixar for 10 years. There were about 120 people when I started and there are something like a thousand now. But, it still feels like a really friendly, fun place. I mean, there are people that I recognize...
Paul: Kool-Aid.
Elyse: Kool what?
All: Kool-Aid.
Elyse: Kool-Aid, oh.
[laughter]
Paul: She's going to kill me.
[laughter]
Question: Regarding the sculpting process, at what level do you have to include coloring and lighting, and in some cases with water, atmospheric density in the process of sculpting or is it more character driven?
Jerome: I don't think about that stuff at all. That's someone else's problem. I'm strictly character design, it's a monochromatic medium. I mean, I'd love to paint some of them, but there's usually not enough time. That happens later after the models are built in the computer. And I'm pre... you know, I'm before that process.
Question: So, are you sculpting in color, or white clay?
Jerome: Just clay. Just oil-based clay.
Elyse: Yeah, down in the exhibition, you'll see a lot of the preliminary work that gets done before color and lighting and texture. That's generally what all those paintings are about. I mean, character, and then there are the sculptures, but there are beautiful paintings that are about texture, lighting and color.
Paul: Yeah, and Tia Kratter that was here last year, she's a shading art director and so these are all those great ones of Sully, of all the different variations. And I just... I thought those were fascinating, just that John wanted to, or was it Pete that kind of wanted the characters to look like, be colored the way that a child might color them in a coloring book. And so, Tia did all these really neat.
Jerome: Right, and those were done over a sculpture, because the digital model wasn't done. We were still trying to find it, but we took the closest sculpture, took photos of it, and Tia would just do paintings right over those photos.
Paul: Yeah and I think on Ratatouille,' they did the same thing.
Jerome: Right.
Paul: They were taking a lot of photographs of sculptures and then, you know in Photoshop, painting on top to try and like experiment with different colors.
Jerome: Trying to just find out what he's going to look like before those digital models were finished.
Paul: Which are expensive.
Jerome: Cha-ching.
Paul: Yeah.
Presenter: Ah, over here.
Question: Hi. You've already touched on this, but my question is about Pixar University. I was wondering what the reason that it's there... is it there just to integrate the artist, or is it there to set up a friendly family atmosphere, or do you honestly...? Can you see the artist being able to produce better work by just [recording interrupted] through other means?
Elyse: All of those things. It's there so that people... People come from really different backgrounds at Pixar, and yet we're all working on this big collaborative art project, making a film. So, some people come from animation - it could be stop motions or 2D, some people come from fine arts, some people come from Computer Graphics and Engineering, live-action film making, finance, marketing, all of those areas.
The more that we have opportunities to understand what each other does, and also the more we have opportunities for creative outlet to do things... I mean, we're all multi-faceted people. I'm fascinated always by some guy in finance who turns out to be a blue-grass musician and he's amazing at what he does. And so, to really see each other as fully rounded creative people, to collaborate in that way, to understand more about each other's work, we started a live-action film making program as a part of Pixar University recently, in the last few years. Because John Lasseter had said, "Put everyone through a live-action boot camp."
You know, this is such a [recording interrupted] what we do as film makers if you could learn more about being on the set and all of that. So we did and we've just made a 20 minute live-action short film with... I think, we had a crew of almost 60 people who came from all different areas of the company, and were not working in areas that they would normally be working at in their Pixar job. So, you know, it fulfilled all those things that you mentioned.
Question: And what's going to happen to that short film? Did it get screened anywhere or is it just you...?
Elyse: We had a big premiere at Pixar, and we've shown it quite a lot there and we've gotten a lot of encouragement from John to maybe do something with that film, so we'll see what happens.
Presenter: You're not getting out [unintelligibe]
Elyse: And we're about to do another one!
Presenter: Excellent! I concede the microphone [recording interrupted]
Question: My question is also about Pixar University. Would you explain a little bit more how it functions? Is it just a means to and end, actually training for the current film, or does it give other people the opportunity to learn other disciplines? And if so, can I choose how many hours a week I spend at Pixar University, or is it an out-of-hours kind of program - how it came about?
Elyse: There're a couple of different things we do in Pixar University. There's technical training, which is as you might imagine it to be. A lot of our software is proprietary, people come in and they need to learn how to use it, and our tools change and develop all the time. So, you may have been there for a long time but there's something new; and so that's constantly going on.
Then, there's productivity things like learning how to use a Mac if... if you are allowed to take up to two classes a term, a week or what... Adrian?
Adrian: Four hours!
Elyse: Four hours a week, right? But, that's also pretty loose. I mean, if you have a lot of time, and you want to take more classes, it's fine. So, the health and recreation is about staying healthy, it's a really smart thing for a company to do to have a place where people can go and stretch their bodies and get exercised. You know, a lot of people sit at their desks like this working on a computer, that's not very good.
The company is all about investing in people, it's not about, "OK, you're done on this production, you're gone!" It's about, "How can we keep you healthy, happy, smarter, learning, productive and wanting to stay here?"
Jerome: And you get a free lunch.
Paul: Free lunch is good!
Elyse: And you get a free lunch, right!
Paul: I think, it helps avoid conflict too, I don't know if you've ever thought about this, but for me... when I take classes that are more technically minded, it helps me be sympathetic for the problems the technical guys go through. When the technical guys take art classes it makes us... you know, we're talking about the conflict and there's a real chance for conflict there, and if we have sympathy for each other's processes and what we have to go through, it really helps.
Elyse: Yeah, that's a great point.
Jerome: Yeah, that is a great point.
Presenter: Well, because I think, especially with the movies and narratives, if an artist takes a screenwriting class that will help him or her, and technical people. I mean, because colors are emotion and shapes are emotional, and I think that all these things will help people get more in tune. In my class, there were a lot of technical people... I don't have anything funny to add to that, sorry.
Jerome: That's OK.
Elyse: That was funny.
[laughter]
Presenter: Right in the front row here, front and center.
Question: Good day! How is it going?
Jerome: Good.
Question: Is there a sense of competition between the various animation teams? Because you're always trying to outdo each other with the movie you're working on.
Jerome: You mean within Pixar?
Question: Within Pixar, yeah.
Jerome: There hasn't been in the past, but now that we're doing more project at a time, and they're all drawing from a limited resource of people and money and space...
Elyse: So, it's a competition for people? But, I don't think there is competition, that intensely, among animators...
Jerome: If there's any competition, it's friendly and joking. I give people a hard time at work, if I like them.
Elyse: [laughter]
Paul: But, Jerome, it still hurts.
[laughter]
Jerome: Get over it. It's kind of like that. I don't think there's any true competition.
Elyse: It's not mean-spirited.
Jerome: Yes. There's no mean-spirited competition at all.
Paul: I think, there is a kind of a funny thing though. The departments, in some way, are so different - that you've got animation, you've got story, you've got art. I think, we were talking about the different ways the directors... personalities kind of change, when they're dealing with each specific group. I remember, I went down to an animation party, and they had fresh crab. I thought...
Jerome: Yeah, why don't we get fresh crab!
Paul: Yeah, I know! In a way, they are the performers. They are the actors.
Elyse: They're coddled. They're so coddled. They're so taken care of, those animators.
Jerome: Yeah. My nickname for them is "Wine-amators."
[laughter]
Jerome: Shhh...Don't tell anyone.
[laughter]
Elyse: We can only say that because Dan went home.
Jerome: No, I could say that to Dan.
Paul: I just think, one thing that is funny is that you'll see the director being all chummy and happy and jolly around the animators. Then, it's almost like he feels like he has to be little bit more serious sometimes around the art department. You kind of want him to joke, but he'll be like, "Yes, now, a little bit more blue. I think, this angle is a little obtuse."
[laughter]
Paul: You always have lots of [unintelligible] up there. I can see a microphone up the back, and this gentleman in the blue is after that.
Question: My question is about the design and creative process. I'm wondering what you've learned over the years. You've had many projects, I'm sure all of you have learned a great deal. What would be the big insight that you've had, in terms of how to design that process? That could apply to many to us in the room, working in other industries that relate to what you're doing, and could apply some of your insights in other spheres, even if you're not creating film.
Paul: I think, one thing that I've noticed, from all the best designers, is just this idea of the first read. I think, you've got to see it like that. Either the character works or it doesn't. The background works or it doesn't. The color works or it doesn't. That's what I find interesting. When you look at the color scripts, which is the emotion or melody of the film, by putting something down, you see whether or not it works. Every studio that I've worked at, they've tried to distill something down. That's why the sculptures are gray, so you can just see the shapes and not be distracted by things. I find the whole process interesting. I don't want to blab... You've got something to say, don't you?
Jerome: Yes. Two things. I think, you should, within design, try not to repeat yourself. If you're going to steal someone else's ideas, change them enough so they don't know you're stealing them. I mean, nothing is created in a vacuum. Picasso said, "Amateurs borrow, professionals steal." There is some truth to that. It's almost an honor to be plagiarized, but, when you take it, turn it around and make it your own.
Elyse: Yes. Don't be afraid to make it your own. You're trying to satisfy the director's vision, but you're there as an artist and a creative person who's contributing. So, you need to bring what you have inside yourself to whatever it is you're doing. Don't be afraid to try it. Worse case scenario, it's not the right one, but maybe it will then inspire someone to go in another direction. So, be true to what you're seeing.
Jerome: That design collaboration, be prepared to be able to..... When I'm working with a character designer and it's a one on one thing, it's like I'm trying to make them happy. I'm trying to excite them. If it works and I'm successful; they get excited and try to draw or push the design forward. It's that interaction that is the most fulfilling. When it's going like that for weeks, you go through eight hour days, and you can't believe the day is over.
Paul: That speaks to the culture of the company though. I think, in large measure, people feel free to do their thing put it out there, knowing that, if it isn't accepted or even if it is shot down, they're not going to be taken out to the car park and put on the bus.
Elyse: Right. Check your ego at the door.
Jerome: Yes, check your ego at the door.
Paul: But, in a lot of other places, that's one big shoot down. That's regarded as personal failure, and you're a dead duck.
Elyse: I think, that's why so much effort and attention is put into "the culture" and making people feel, "You're here. You work here. We love you. You're greatm and so don't be afraid to fail." I mean, it's not fun to fail, but it's OK.
Paul: And it's also, "Make sure you get your stuff done by Thursday."
Elyse: Right.
[laughter]
Jerome: By review.
Paul: Well there was one thing I just wanted to add, Ricky Nierva, he did a bunch of amazing stuff for Nemo' and Monsters', but he's working on a movie that the story's really amazing, crazy. He was just saying that the design really had to follow that. He kept on saying, "We're not going to do "ratitude." We cannot do something that's real because this story isn't that. This has got all these fantastic things, and the style has to match the story, which is so fantastic and surreal.
Jerome: I can see way at the top microphone up there.
Question: I realize you guys are more on the visual creative side rather than the story side, but I was interested in your comments that for two of you your favorite Picasso characters are female characters. Yet in most of the movies the main character is a male character and Picasso does some great female characters. I was wondering if there's much discussion about that main character role, or if there's any films coming up that do have a female as the main character in the film.
Jerome: No comment.
[laughter]
Paul: There's a double meaning in that.
[laughter]
Question: It gets so well to the Picasso characters in it, so kids just love them and it's just interesting.
Elyse: I think, our stories come from our directors. Thus far, our directors have been male. There's a lot of discussion, but if you want people, what we want is for our directors to tell stories that matter to them. So, they have told stories that matter to them and sometimes they are more "male centric" and there are female characters as well.
We do have a female director at Pixar. We'll just leave it at that.
Paul: One funny anecdote was...
Jerome: And she's really nice.
Paul: Yes, definitely.
[laughter]
Elyse: And really talented.
Paul: Yes, Mizaki, there's sort of a close relationship between Pixar and Mizaki, and it came with a translator. There was this funny interview where it kind of get a little bit like, because people would say, "What's your normal day like?" And you would be like, "What? You want to know what I eat for breakfast?" And somebody said that a lot of your movies have got very strong female characters and they're wondering why. I think, all of us in the audience were kind of hoping to hear this sort of like thing about equality and he just said, "I like women!"
[laughter]
Paul: Yes, he was amazing. He's like the humblest person I've ever met.
Jerome: Yes.
Paul: When they asked him what his day was like it was like, "I get up. I eat. I go to work." My wife lets me have one beer and then I say, "It's time to go to sleep."
Jerome: Yes!
[laughter]
Question: I was just wondering about the freelance artist aspect of...
Elyse: He just wants to see us fight again.
[laughter]
Question:...Kate Goodrich, for example. I'd imagine he was approached by Pixar, but I'm not quite sure, that's one of the questions. I've noticed in the added months with Zinc that [unintelligible] is an English animator of Argentinean background also submitted a design, at least one design which is in that book.
Can you just talk a little bit more about that?
Elyse: Yes, I'll let Jerome talk too, but in the early phases, for sure, the directors often will call on various talented, amazing artists to submit ideas. In Monsters,' there were lots of them, in Nemo... I think, in all of our films. And pulled from that and then our artists internally start to work as well.
Those aren't artists who necessarily want to be full-time at Pixar; they do a lot of different things. I have no idea if we've tried to hire those people or not.
Paul: A few guys we have and they were just making too much money freelance. They're working for everybody. They're working for Sony, DreamWorks, and Disney, so why? They're charging quadruple what people at Pixar pay, but it's also a means to an end hiring those freelance guys. Because five years out, when they want to start visual development and no one in-house is available, it makes sense for them to go to freelance guys and just have them take a pass at design, just to put a stake in the ground essentially.
Presenter: OK, way up the back.
Question: Obviously, Pixar's well known for its success and its sculpture that it had in recent years. Obviously it's just been bought out my Disney as well. Has that impacted on what you do and have you impacted on what Disney does?
Jerome: I was dying to ask that. Glad somebody...
Elyse: We've had that question a lot!
[laughter]
Paul: Yes, so we're not going to answer... we've already...
[laughter]
Jerome: There's a lawyer under the desk.
[laughter]
Elyse: No, actually, there's been impact both ways, I'm sure. I don't actually feel it too profoundly, at Pixar, except that John has me going to do things at Disney. I think, the biggest thing for us is that John and Ed are at Disney two days a week; so, they're not at Pixar five days a week, which, you know, we love them. We love having them around, so that's a little bit hard. I think, at Disney, from what I've heard and felt, people are just thrilled that there are two guys running the place, the feature animation department there, who love animation, who are not just guys in suits, who really, absolutely are passionate about animation.
Jerome: And John's bringing back to them what they were; how it started? They were a director-driven studio, and now John's bringing that philosophy back. I think, the executives are stepping back. The business guys aren't making so many decisions, and John's investing in the directors again.
Elyse: In the creative process again.
Jerome: So, hopefully we'll see a result out of that soon.
Elyse: Yes, but it's not like there's somebody breathing down our backs, saying, "Don't do that. You can't. No more scooters, no more cereal." [laughter] I mean, I've said a couple of times; it would have been really dumb to spend $7.4 billion to buy Pixar, and then bring it down. I mean, the point was, this place is doing something that works.
Presenter: Does that mean they have free breakfasts at Disney now, or...
Jerome: No, but they do get jealous when they go on tours, I've heard that they'll kind of look around, and you see their eyes kind of bug out a little bit. But no, I haven't noticed any change. When they made the announcement, it felt like your parents were telling you that your Dad got a new job in Cincinnati and that we're all going to have to leave. They kept on saying nothing's going to change so much, that we got, I got a little scared, but nothing's changed. They only thing I think I've ever...really?
Paul: I think, there's a tiny little change as far as production schedule and expectations are concerned.
Jerome: What, the guns? [laughter]
Paul: I just think, there's going to be, at least in the Sculpture Department, the two of us are feeling a little more of a pinch of more stuff happening. That's about it. It's not a bad thing. It's good to be busy, but... That's about it for me.
Jerome: Yes, I think, one of the big changes that happened after "Nemo" was, it felt like the water pressure got better [laughter] in the showers at the gym, after it was a success. I'm serious! [laughter]
Presenter: [laughing] I can't imagine what the connection would be. I can see the microphone over here, and there's a chap on.
Question: A couple of questions. Since... sort of going on from the last question... Since the buyout from Disney, has there been sort of an increase in the amount of Greenlit films? Was there anyone saying, it's all right, they're selling, now we're going to go through, bang, bang, bang, these films?' Sorry, I have a question. Also, have you ever been approached by bands to maybe do video clips, or television commercials, things like that?
Elyse: The answer, I think, to the first question is no', although now I really don't remember what the question was. I just remember the answer I had in my head. Oh, Greenlit Right. Right.
Paul: Before the sale, they were always trying to get one movie out a year.
Presenter: Yes, it would take a lot longer to speed the ship up, even if that was going to happen.
Elyse: Everything that's in development or production already existed. And, approached by bands or TV commercials?
Question: To do ads or video clips or...
Jerome: Individually, or as a company?
Question: As a company, like, get Pixar to do the new Fu Fighters video clip or something like that.
Elyse: Not that I'm aware of.
Paul: We did, we did do what... way, long, long time ago...
Elyse: We did do commercials once upon a time, but then there was an active choice, after "Toy Story." It was like, no, now we just get to make feature films.
Presenter: I would love to see the pitch.
Jerome: Oh no, but it was a great Listerine... do you have Listerine here? It was a great Listerine commercial.
Presenter: Yeah. Wow.
Question: Has there been any change in the culture or the attitude from the early days of Pixar, through to now, that you can see obviously, it's grown, and it's this huge monster now? Have you noticed a change in the culture since when you joined?
Elyse: Not that I've noticed. I mean it's bigger, and that's different. You don't recognize as many faces. Sometimes, it takes a little longer to get something done, because there're three more people who end up having to be at the meeting, or asked about. But still, I think, I really haven't. I'm amazed. Actually that, from a hundred people to a thousand people, it still has that heart and that thing that I love.
Presenter: OK. We've got maybe five minutes; so, we'll probably take two more questions maybe. The microphone is up there at the moment. And then we'll go to...
Question: Shortly following the release of all the video... of all the feature films as video games, do you guys get involved at all with the production of, with any of the video game art or is that all external?
And also, do you see those video games as in any way comparable works of art, or do you just see them as merchandise?
Jerome: Someone reviews the games, someone in marketing. But, I've never seen one, or played one.
Elyse: Yeah. I don't know anything about those things.
Paul: Well, I know that they'll ask to look at a lot of the artwork and they will review it. And I know that, I think, Lou and Pete did voices for it.
I mean, it's funny. I used to work in games for Lucas and so I kind of am scarred by that.
[laughter]
Paul: So, you know, I totally think of it as a wonderful art form, and I totally respect it. And I know that they work as hard as they can. And video game is all about, you know, limitations. It's all about being able to freely roam everywhere, whereas we are shot-based and story-based. So, it's a different fish, definitely.
But, I know that even though we don't have a whole lot to do with it, they are meeting with people all the time. They are coming by. They are always seeing artwork and things. But...
Jerome: Yeah, especially to get it done by a release you know...
Paul: Oh yeah.
Jerome: They have to coordinate in that way.
Paul: And I don't think they get overtime.
Jerome: No, no we don't.
Paul: No, I never did.
Presenter: Yeah, it's a pretty brutal side of the business. All right. There is a microphone down here. We'll do one more question after that, then we'll wrap. Where did the microphone turn up? Down here. Go ahead.
Question: I just had a question... we've kind of moved on from it a little bit, but with the collaboration with Disney and Pixar, were there... Disney's kind of got this sort of wholesome - they generally paint this wholesome image - talking animals, all that sort of stuff. Are there places your films could have gone or did that, or did Disney actually sort of dictate that a little bit and water it down to be a little safer and politically sensitive?
Paul: You mean the earlier films?
Man: Yeah.
Paul: I don't think they put too many restrictions on what we did.
Elyse: No, I mean, you know, the earliest example is the whole 'Toy Story' thing. I mean, when 'Toy Story' was being made, there was a lot, there was... what was it, Black Friday?
Paul: Black Friday, when they shut it down.
Elyse: When the production was shut down, because the story actually wasn't a story that was very good. You know, it wasn't working and there was a lot of... there were notes that were given.
And from what I've heard the Pixar guys came back and actually rewrote the story the way they wanted to because they had been getting a lot of notes from people there saying, "Make it edgier. Make it this far."
And it wasn't working. So, they went back and they redid the story that they had always wanted to do. And that's when it got Greenlit.
Jerome: And that was John's first feature.
Elyse: And it was John's first feature.
Jerome: So, he was learning just like everyone else.
Paul: Yeah, well I think, they always want to make films for families. I mean, I think, Ratatouille' is definitely, you know, there's nothing bad in it. But, it's definitely a little bit, skewed a little bit older, which I think is so great about it.
I think, the only thing I heard of Disney was some - we were talking about it earlier - was that cigarette that E held just got - they took it out as they did not let them allow a lit cigarette.
Jerome: A lit cigarette. Yeah.
Paul: Yeah.
Presenter: OK. Lucky last.
Question: I've just got a quick, almost a follow on from that, which is obviously most of the Pixar films so far have been G rated. But, it was 'The Incredibles', which was PG, wasn't it? Is that... obviously that was a decision that would not be made lightly. I mean, is that something that will be moving forward, you know, you guys doing more mature films or are you sticking with the kind of G side of it?
Elyse: My guess on that is, again, it's director-driven, what's the story. And, you know, 'The Incredibles' had to be told that way. And if there's another one that needs to be PG, it will be. I don't think there's anything triple X planned.
[laughter]
Presenter: OK, look I'm sorry to be so brutal about the time, but Paul is up in half an hour for another hour and a half speech.
[laughter]
And so, you know, he's got to go to the toilet in between.
Jerome: And he just found out.
[laughter]
Paul: What am I talking about? Is anyone going to that one by the way?
Presenter: Shut up.
Paul: Oh.
Presenter: Just a couple of things before we finish. Thank you all first of all for coming and having such incredibly intelligent and insightful questions, that really makes a huge difference.
Secondly, we actually have the Australian premiere of 'Ratatouille' the film here on August 13th. And we'll be inviting people through our website and our newsletters; so, if you're not signed up for the newsletter, sign up now and you'll get to come. And also, we'll be the first place for you to come to play the...
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